• Hi All,

    Has anyone ever had a P0340 on their Gen 2 Cube?  I understand that on K12 Micras (and therefore Gen 2 Cubes) that this could well mean a stretched timing change throwing the timing out enough to trigger the sensor to flag the issue.

    I'm tempted to change the Cam Position Sensor first as this is a £40 part.  If that doesn't work, it's time for the chain to be replaced - grit teeth and get out the chequebook :-(

    What do you think to an independent mechanic versus Nissan dealer here?  Generally I'd use the former, but if there are lots of specialist tools for this, is Nissan better?

    Thanks,
    Stu
  • like you say it may be fault with sensor dose the code clear or not on command their is a way to test chain i have to see if i can find it again .
  • Thanks for that, good link. As well as the code there's been a couple of lumpy cold starts that cleared themselves. Haven't noticed noisy running though Will go and stick my head under the bonnet shortly.

    http://www.justanswer.com/uk-nissan/3t540-22-36-5.html - interesting thread.

    I haven't tried clearing the code but will do so and let you know.

  • Ok, code is clear.  Have been for a brief 5 mile run and still off (but will check to see if anything is pending).  

    I had a listen in the engine bay with the engine warm, but nothing sounds untoward to me - though all that means is that it sounds like it always has.  No odd rattles or squeaks.


  • There are lots of posts about the timing chain issue on the Micra sports forum Micra.org.uk - look in the K12 mechanical section.

    I'm currently going through the pain after my engine light came on a year ago - I cleared code but it has been running noisily with poor economy since so I've taken the plunge now my engine swap plans fell through.

    If yours sounds okay then it might be alright for a while. :)
  • Thanks for that - I'll have a read of the Micra Sports board. I'm just going to keep an eye/ear on it for now.

    Sorry to hear yours is suffering and hope you get it sorted as painlessly as possible. Did your engine light return at all?

    Cheers,
    Stu
  • Like you say a lot of talk on engine changes but the chain can be done in car. a bit tight .the only one thing about belts i like they are designed to be changed in most cases.and cheaper to do .unless brke even then not bad . The new cars are doing 100 thousand /10year . So the little Nissan engine chain idea is a little poor.people say after market chain kits are poor .to me the Nissan chain is to. I had a 1.6 mk2 escort when scraped It had 243.000 rusty Hope all the little cubes out there soon feel better
  • Like you say a lot of talk on engine changes but the chain can be done in car. a bit tight .the only one thing about belts i like they are designed to be changed in most cases.and cheaper to do .unless brke even then not bad . The new cars are doing 100 thousand /10year . So the little Nissan engine chain idea is a little poor.people say after market chain kits are poor .to me the Nissan chain is to. I had a 1.6 mk2 escort when scraped It had 243.000 rusty Hope all the little cubes out there soon feel better
  • Cheers toaster.

    Stu, my engine light didn't return and when I ran it through nissan connect again it didn't show any error codes but I could tell from symptoms that it wasn't all there.
  • Thanks for that.  If ours starts getting noisy and/or running badly, I'll get the tensioner checked first.  

    Some good threads on the Micra forum - have a much better idea of what to look for now.

    Cheers,
    Stu
  • So...

    CEL back on - P0340 again, but this time with a bonus P1110.  Not looking good for anything other than a timing chain change.  Looking at the manual, I'd give it a go myself, but by the time I book two days off work and buy an engine crane and the parts, getting it done elsewhere looks good.  A mechanic I use has said he's done a Micra for £700ish (but I need to confirm if this was with parts or not).

    :-(
  • Hi may be worth checking
    P1110 NISSAN - Intake Valve Timing Control Bank 1

    Possible causes

    - Faulty Intake valve timing control solenoid valve - Intake valve timing control solenoid valve harness is open or shorted - Intake valve timing control solenoid valve may be faulty - Crankshaft position sensor (POS) may be faulty - Camshaft position sensor

    Tech notes

    Since the Intake valve timing control solenoid valve uses oil flow to control timing, dirty oil can cause the valve to stuck open or close. Before replacing the valve, change engine oil and filter and reset engine code.

    When is the code detected?

    When there is a gap between angle of target and phase-control angle degree, the valve will stop working and the Engine Control Module (ECM) will trigger the P1110 code.

    Symptoms

    - Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light) - Possible engine lack/loss of power - Posssible engine rough idle

    P1110 NISSAN Description

    This mechanism hydraulically controls cam phases continuously with the fixed operating angle of the intake valve.

    The Engine Control Module (ECM) receives signals such as crankshaft position, camshaft position, engine speed, and engine coolant temperature. Then, the ECM sends ON/OFF pulse duty signals to the intake valve timing control solenoid valve depending on driving status. This makes it possible to control the shut/open timing of the intake valve to increase engine torque in low/mid speed range and output in high-speed range.

    The intake valve timing control solenoid valve changes the oil amount and direction of flow through intake valve timing control unit or stops oil flow. The longer pulse width advances valve angle. The shorter pulse width retards valve angle. When ON and OFF pulse widths become equal, the solenoid valve stops oil pressure flow to fix the intake valve angle at the control position.
  • £700 sounds a lot for a chain swap? >:P
  • Thanks toaster.

    Paul - don't Nissan charge £1k for this? I would guess the Indy garage would take longer at a lower rate due to lack of familiarity/specialist tools..
  • Probably right but sounds a lot, especialy when someone on here got an engine swap for £250 labour? At £50 an hour then it would get 14 hours, I would of thought a chain could be done in 4 ish?
  • Dose seam a lot as the chain gear can be done in car its tight but do able .if that labour is right very steep
  • Mine was £740 labour (including welding a protection plate on the oil sump)

    Kit with new intake sprocket was £225 plus P&P.
  • Sounds crazy money that for a chain, glad I know my mechanic well.
  • Hi,

    My mechanic's comment of £700 was based on a Micra - I understand that engine has to come out for them.  Still awaiting confirmation if this is just labour or if it included parts.  If both, I'd guess at £50/hr for 10 hours work which doesn't sound too bad.

    Would love to do it myself but just don't have the time and as this is supposed to be our 'practical', 'reliable' car I can't afford it to be off the road for too long.

    I think I'm going to monitor it for now as the car is running fine.  If it starts running badly I'll look into it more.  Worst case of new engine is cheaper than getting the chain fixed which is nuts.

    Stu
  • Yeah it is an engine out job really.

    Some have it done it with engine in but it involves removing a link, dropping chain in, looping it around and then putting link back in.

    There are guards with bolts that are concealed if trying to do job with engine in - not attempted myself as in similar position to Stu in terms of getting it done quickly and efficiently.

  • Don't fancy the idea of splitting links TBH - I would always have a nagging doubt about whether the rejoin becomes a weak point.

    Thanks CUBED for the info on yours BTW - really useful to hear what people have paid.

    Is there any evidence of chains having snapped on these?  I'm thinking that as the tendency is for them to stretch that it is something that would happen fairly progressively over time (resulting in increasingly bad running as the timing starts dropping out) - rather than a catastrophic failure that you might get on a rubber cambelt.

     
  • It can be done properly in cube tight and no need to split chain so no need to worry about links and stuff as you can see all to do . Need to check for were remove cam box cover and look at adjuster to see how bad worn it is . On here somewhere there is a pic and stuff .
  • Thanks toaster.  So is it easy enough to get to the tensioner to view the adjustment?  Any idea what the tolerance is for max movement?  

    Tried to find threads on it here, but have never found the search to give useful results :-(

     
  • Have done this job before on a Vectra. It looks a similar job and about as much room. I had to take off the engine mount next to the timing cover and jack the engine up and down to be able to get access to all the bolts. I found one of the guide rails broken so it definitely needed doing.

    As a first time job all went ok and I would definitely give it another go just don't expect to complete the job in one sitting.

    I've followed the guide on the micra k12 site but tbh it's barely adequate. What's all that nonsense with the air hose all about?
  • I've only ever done a chain on my mk5 RS2000 with new head. Lots of room on those though so not sure about Cube.
  • Local Nissan dealer quote ("might be more, depends on parts") for the timing chain is....


    .....wait for it......




    £1400!
  • Can't beat a main stealer quote  =))
  • You can get a low mileage engine for as low as £350. Say £300 to fit and your away. Still less than half the price of just a chain ........... lol.
  • A big bargen . I got to do a 1.4 micra chain check at weekend .and if bad going to do chain in car . I will do a photo shoot as i go it may help some one
  • £1400?? What do they do, get a dude over from Nissan Japan to do it and put him and his family up in the Dorchester for the duration?

    Robbing fuckers.
  • I got to do a 1.4 micra chain check at weekend .and if bad going to do chain in car . I will do a photo shoot as i go it may help some one

    Sounds good. 
    :-bd
  • I thought you would all like the price! ;)

    Toaster - that would be awesome, thanks.
  • CEL has gone out. Maybe the Nissan price scared it away? :-)
  • CEL back on. Read the codes again and it's P0340 and P1110.

    The car is now running badly for the first 5 mins from cold when the weather is very cold - starts and idles fine but stutters heavily when revved. Once warm, no issues. I can't think how this could be a timing chain issue, surely that would cause timing to be out all the time, not just when cold?
  • The old ford rattle boxes( escort 1,1)there chain was happy flapping around total of its guilds .but now we have variable valve timing twin cam engines when i check the one i did between the old chain and new there were 4mm different in just the two cams overall 10mm on whole chain . This might help i was on ebay and there a guy doing and fitting chains for 295 if i read it right micra timing chain his number is on there mobil
    SC20131118-071718.png
    480 x 800 - 87K
  • Thanks toaster. I'll look him up.
  • Won't your chain rattle if it's stretched? Could it be your coolant temp sensor telling the ECU that the coolant is at normal temperature I.e. not freezing cold ?
  • From the reading I've done they don't rattle a huge amount - not compared to earlier Micras which were like nails in a tin! Ours has a slight rattle when cold but I think it might be a heat shield. No weird ticking or anything from the area the chain lives.

    Going from the cam position sensor first as that's what the code points at - well aware the code can mean chain but would rather try a 40 quid fix first. CMP sensors are used at start up so it is possible ours is a duff one.

    After that, I was going to look at the MAP sensor (with cold air intake sensor) as if that doesn't read right, lean running when cold seems logical.
  • Well it seems to me you know what you're doing and yeah start cheap and work up. I had startup issues on our Clio 182. Changed the cam pos sensor £33 but it was the starter solenoid. £140 and lots of swearing and grazed knuckles later and all done.


  • Swearing and grazed knuckles - all part of the fun ;)
  • Had a bit of a poke around today.  I located and removed the Camshaft Position Sensor - sealed unit, not much to see.  Put it back in.  Removed the MAP sensor and sprayed with carb cleaner to get rid of dirt/oil build up, then refitted.

    Took off the airbox and had a look at the intake manifold.  The 4 rubber gasket rings are all a  bit cracked and old looking - that won't help running if it's a post-throttle body air leak.  Gave the throttle body a clean up with carb cleaner.

    Noticed that the bottom of the airbox has one broken lug, so need to replace that.  Will try and source the rubber gaskets too - no luck online so a trip to Nissan.

    I've bought a rocker cover and an oil gasket so that I can whip the rocker cover off to check the chain tensioner protrusion if my issues persist.  I'll need to get liquid gasket too as the time end of the rocker cover has a small section that needs it according to the service manual.

    Cheers,
    Stu
  • You have been bizzy . Good that you had a look about and found some air intake prob that will not help running . How ever it may not be what is bring up code p0340. But may explain the running probs when cold
  • Yeah, the 340 is bound to be back (I cleared it today).

    Cold running is literally two mins of judder when revved, then fine after that. Very strange. If the P0340 returns I'll chuck in a new CMP sensor. If still an issue the rocker cover will be off. :-)
  • Stu just for you who.
    SC20131109-225628.png
    480 x 800 - 63K
  • Thanks mate. Time to get the test meter out :-)

    P1110 is back, P0340 is not. Now have a chicken and egg scenario!
  • Looking very like chain (((sad))) egg&Chips and bread yum!
  • Well, I've gone and done it - the Cube is booked in to a Nissan independent specialist for initial investigations and (if needed) new timing chain (Blueprint) on Dec 17.  I'll post back full details of where/how much etc after that date.

    Cheers,
    Stu
  • Ooooo hope it all gose well and if there is a different way to do look forward to here toaster
  • Will have a good chat.  The guy is a Nissan master technician that now runs his own workshop so knows his stuff.  He reckoned in a Micra auto they do with engine in, but with the manual out - so I suspect will do the Cube engine in.  

    Will be nice to get it sorted :)
  • That sound good i did micra manual in. Just did it in as did not wish to disconnect more than needed. And only with no engine crane so jack and axle stand it was .
  • Good news about sourcing someone to do the change.

    Only thing I'd say about the Blueprint kit is they don't have a replacement cam gear for the air intake side so if the teeth are chewed (like mine were) then you'll need an OEM Nissan cam gear.

    I ended up buying a kit with the Cam gear included.

  • Thanks for the heads-up on that.  I'll talk to him about it.  He's not buying any parts until he's confirmed that it is chain stretch that is the cause.  Any idea how much an OEM cam gear is?
  • It's part labelled 4 on this page - http://nissan4u.com/parts/micra/er_k12e/2006_4/type_74/engine_mechanical/cylinder_head_rocker_cover_camshaft_and_valve_mechanism/illustration_1/

    Part number - 13025AX011

    Nissan quoted £120ish IIRC and they had them in stock in Sunderland.

     

  • Thanks for that.  I'm hoping that mine is early stages of chain stretchiness and that the sprocket mightn't have been mashed up (yes, ever the optimist).  If it needs the timing chain doing after the initial diagnosis I'll get the guy to check that sprocket prior to ordering.

    Cheers,
    Stu
  • The whole kit including the inlet advancer pulley are available found out wen i did one about £200 small ones so not bad but it all adds up .
  • Yeah the kit I went for I the end had the extra gear included. (Returned the blueprint)
  • Well, the Cube is off for attention in the morning - wish me luck!

    I'll let you know how it goes.

    Stu
  • Stu best of luck and hope all goes well tomorrow and that the pocket moster leaves you some££££££ left.
  • Thanks toaster.  She's in with the garage.. result of the diagnostics due later this afternoon...
  • Chain is indeed stretched.  I've asked him to check the cam gear.  Parts should be in today, hopefully fitting will happen tomorrow...
  • Poor you worn chain shame all the best . Time to find the fluff at the bottom of your pockets doh .
  • Thanks - I'd braced myself for it! :-)

    Just want it running right and reliable again now, so look forward to it being sorted.
  • At least you've found the culprit and won't have to worry again once it's been done. :)
  • Yeah, that's what I figured too :)

    It is going to be finished today, but I'm leaving it overnight to give the liquid gasket plenty of time to go off.  Will post back tomorrow with my impressions.  I'm hoping it'll 'feel' different if it's been out for a while.


  • New member here.

    According to Nissan the correct VVT gear for a 2005 Cube is 13025AX000 or 13025AX00B which is the three bolt version and is an eye-watering £605.00 plus vat only to special order.

    Once again according to Nissan part number 13025AX011 is the 4 bolt VVT gear as fitted to the UK Micras is only £95.00 plus vat.

    Nissan reckon the latter part is not suitable for the JDM version of the CR14DE as fitted to the Cube.

    Has anyone on here come across this before?

    Thanks in advance.
  • Hey Pancho,

    I believe that CUBED has come across this:

    And he did have his changed recently so can hopefully assist you.

    I asked my mechanic to check the cam gear and he said he would but that 'they are usually ok in his experience' - Nissan mechanic since 1993.  Mine was fine, fortunately.

    Cheers,
    Stu
  • Thanks for the reply StuM.

    Yes I saw that thread so I sent Cubed a pm to see how he resolved the matter, but to date haven't had a reply.

    On our example I suspect the engine noise was a combination of worn timing chain and possibly the VVT gear itself.

    Incidentally there appears to be similar levels of wear on all three gears. Although I'm not familiar with this engine, my experience suggests that to do the job properly all would need replacing.

  • At that price for the three bolt sprocket, plus Nissan's quote to me of £1500 for the job the car would be close to being written off.  I saw very low mileage whole CR14Es for half the cost of that JDM sprocket!

    Interesting - ours made no odd noises at all, just the error codes and then poor cold running.  Is yours throwing the codes too?


  • No codes, just a very loud and random metallic pinging on start up from cold.

    Once the engine warms up the noise goes away.

    Apart from the cold start noise the engine appears to be fine and performance is good for 150,000kms.
  • The Cube is back. 

    The chain tensioner piston was extended to 17mm - a long way past the 10mm max tolerance that Nissan recommend.  I asked why it still ran fine and the reply was:

    "The cam and crank position sensors monitor the timing.  The variable valve timing is adjusted by the ECU to provide the best available setting.  This works up to a point, but once the chain is stretched too far, even the VVT can't compensate enough, so you get poor running that becomes worse over time."

    I had reached that point, hence the bad cold start-up.  I would have been low on power and high on fuel consumption.

    So..

    It is now done.  The cam gear was ok so not in need of replacement.  A Blueprint ADL kit was used.  I am happy to recommend the garage - they did a great job and know their stuff.  Here are their details:


    They are actually a Skyline GTR specialist (fuelling my desire to return to sportscars!) - and an appointed agent of Litchfield.  Sly was trained by Nissan and has 20 years experience of their cars.  He is a qualified Nissan Master Technician and Nissan High Performance Centre Master Technician and has won awards - all on his website.

    They are based near Kingsnorth Power Station in Kent.  I'm lucky that his garage is 15 mins from my parents house.

    He had the car about a day and a half and the job cost £650.

    The car does feel much better.  It is also much quieter - I said that ours wasn't noisy.. that was because it has made the same noise since buying a year ago.  It is now noticeably quieter, has a much smoother power delivery and is much less 'lumpy' at idle.

    One small issue with it (nothing to do with the job) - I have a small leak from the seal where the dipstick tube joins the block.  It is only tiny, doesn't drip onto the road.  But, to fix, the exhaust manifold has to come off so it's a half day job that I'll get Kaizer to do if it gets worse.

    Cheers,
    Stu 
  • Good good bud glad all done . Did he do in car or engine out . Now you can crusade around again .
  • Engine stayed in the car mate.

    Nice not to have the orange glow of the engine light anymore :)

    I can go back to planning pulling the engine out of my VW van!
  • Excellent news Stu. :)
  • Glad to hear it's fixed up. Does anyone know how to avoid stretching the chain? Is it something that can be avoided, or is it just luck of the draw? 


  • Hi orangecube . The stretched chain is not the problem . Its a worn chain and its common in the earlier cubes/ micras .the stuff i read up on points to oil changes. The oil becomes very acidic not oil fault . and attack the coating on the silent run chain its a poor quilty chain fault but Nissan do not recognize it. Because once chain is replaced all is well for the life of engine .
  • Nissan's official line says that oil changed at correct intervals and regular servicing is the answer.  However, I've read an example of a 2 year old car with full Nissan history and 12,000 milesthat suffered!  

    Blueprint cover it well in this document:

    So toaster is right - general degradation of the Hi-Vo chain that ultimately weakens it and leads to stretching.  I'm waiting for the photos (which I'll post here) but my old chain was noticeably longer than the replacement one (obviously hence the tensioner piston extending out so far).

    I can't comment on the regular maintenance - I have no history for mine for its time in Japan.  But, not every CR14DE suffers (at least not at low mileage - mine is on 63k miles) so I would advise anyone to keep to the recommended schedules (you should anyway, right?) and hope yours is ok.  At least they seem to give warning of problems rather than catastrophic failures - ours was perfectly usable even with the tensioner piston at 17mm - albeit with 2 mins of poor running at start up. 
  • Thanks stu . Mine is now on 178km had cube since 31km like you Say poor running and light on its better than bang clater stop. Look forward to pick the one i did the chain was about 8 mill longer . And tensorer was 20 mill onto so had noise .
  • Ah, okay. So, that's just the regular engine oil change, not a special oil change? Sorry, probably a very silly question. Thanks guys. 


  • I would say normal changes, no extra - not sure what the intervals are to be honest but I tend to do once a year as we do so few miles.
  • As promised, here is the tensioner piston poking its head out a rather long way...

    WP_000723.jpg
    2448 x 3264 - 1M
  • Here is the new one in place for comparison...
    WP_000728.jpg
    1958 x 1469 - 851K
  • And here are the old and new chains side-by-side...


    WP_000726.jpg
    1958 x 1469 - 556K
  • Thanks for posting photos. :)
  • No problem dude - I love seeing photos on forums so just sharing the joy! :-)
  • Just to get this right (as it seems mine is suffering the same problem), you had a P0340 code on the OBD machine. It wasn''t starting too well and a bit thirsty? all my symptoms but not tested the OBD until I get the right kit.

    Will this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NISSAN-MICRA-2003-2013-1-0-1-2-1-4-16v-BRAND-NEW-TIMING-CHAIN-KIT-INC-COGS-/131121220451?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model:Micra&hash=item1e876f0b63

    Will this do the job?
  • Oh dear, the chain is stretched and needs changing.

    I'm getting a replacement chain kit and my local garage will fit. Looks like a £500 job. Is there anything else to worry about?
  • Hi mate just make shaw its the whole kit as the part kit runs noisy ie chain all sprockets and glides tensioner I have done this job ok look at my listings on here under p340
  • Just an update, I spoke to the guy from the ebay ad who will do the whole job for £300.

    He's based near Hartlepool which is a fair treck from me but he can do it in a day and I can visit family in Newcastle. I'll report back as to how it goes. The guy says he's done a lot of them and deals in recon engines. What can go wrong.
  • Just an update, the guy did a good job and the car runs well now. However, the advertised price went up to £600 on account of other issues so it's hard to say if I got a great deal or not.

    In hindsight, I'd have been as well to use my local trusted garage just because the trip included an early start, day off work and return over the pennies with snow lying I the m62.